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tv   Mc Laughlin Group  CBS  November 15, 2009 11:30am-12:00pm EST

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captions by: caption colorado, llc (800) 775-7838 from washington, "the mclaughlin group," the american original. for over two decades, the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk. "the mclaughlin group" is brought to you by mississippi development authority. visit to see what we can do for you. ♪ [music] ♪ u.s., asia bonded. >> we have to understand that the future of the united states and asia is inextricably linked. >> president obama is in asia threw next week with stops in
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tokyo, singapore, shanghai, beijing. so who get as the lion's share of obama's time? china. three days out of nine replicating what happened recently at the u.n. where the president of china and president obama were closeted for 90 minutes. this time allocation speaks for itself. and if there is any doubt remaining, obama's description of the u.s./chinese relationship clears it up. >> the relationship between the united states and china will shape the 21st century, which makes it as important bilateral relationship in the world. >> question. what must president obama accomplish in china this coming week? pat? >> he'll have to rebalance the trade relationship between the united states and china. the last ten years, the chinese have had a $2 trillion surplus. we've experted to them jobs, factories, money, technology, and that's one of the reasons why we've got this financial
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crisis and the dollar's in such trouble. what he's got to do is convince the chinese that this relationship cannot continue the way it's been with them producing everything and us consuming everything. so i think the key thing he's gonna have to do is try to convince them to let the yen rise against the dollar. when the dollar goes down, that makes china not only keep their competitive add vantch with us but it increases over southeast asia and europe. i don't think he's going to be able to succeed because the chinese of hard core economic nationalists who are succeeding marvelously in a free trade world. >> that's a good exposition but look at china's patterns. >> china just has an enormous tool set as the government. it controls all of the wealth that's in china's land, has a state-run banking system. it controls all of the key levers in the economy. >> over the past 30 years,
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china's ruling hand has produced the world's fastest growing economy, averaging 10% gdp growth during this span. first, the basics. area, 3,705,400 square miles, slightly smaller than the u.s. with its 3,794,100 square miles. population, 1.3 billion. most populated nation in the world. four times more populous than the u.s.'s 307 million. military, china's buildup has been so dramatic that the pentagon now sees china as a challenge to america's military presence in asia. china, economy. total gdp, china 8 trillion, u.s. 14.34 trillion. labor force, china 800 million. u.s. 154 million.
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billionaires, china 79. u.s. 391. millionaires, choo -- china 400,000, u.s. 9 million. automobile production, china 9.3 million cars in 2008. second in the world. u.s. 8.7 million in 2008, third in the world. banking, china leads. three of the world's top four largest banks, u.s. one of the world's top four. green energy, china leads winds, solar and biofuels expecting to reduce carbon emissions by 2020 by 20%. u.s. 15% carbon reduction by 2020. the u.s./china equation. china is the biggest holder of u.s. debt. it holds $800 billion worth of u.s. debt. with that $800 billion wealth, china can buy chicago twice.
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shanghai world expo starts may 1, 2010. communism? china says forget about it. >> people have a very bad memory of a period in china like 30 years ago. so when the government becomes rich, everybody wants to become rich. >> question. is china today more capitalist or more communist? >> they're no, ma'amennally communist but intensely capitalistic and competitive. so sort that out how you will. they can make decisions at the top and just implement them. they can get ahead of us in terms of turning out the next generation of cars and solar panels or you name it. they are a second biggest trading partner, but they're our biggest banker. and we are inexplicably intertwined with them. it's kind of like when pat and i agree. neither of us feel terribly comfortable about it. that's kind of like the chinese --
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>> why are you uncomfortable? >> because you're supposed to be opposites and yet these two countries have so much in common and need each other and so reliant on each other. >> why are we supposed to be opposites? >> we're not supposed to be, we are. >> because they are technically titled communists but they don't regard themselves, or do they as compunnists? >> they do but they practice capitalism. they are on their way -- >> yes, they do. >> not anymore. the people's republic of communist china. >> the communist party is the ruling party in china. there's no competitive party. >> look. president obama's spending a good deal of time there and it's strategic and economic. on the strategic seed, side, he has to deal with beijing. he'll have to urge them to do more nonmilitary assistance. also, he'd like them to weigh in on aggressive sanctions on the iranian government, on their nuclear program. good luck with that because
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china has huge commercial interests in iran. also, economically there is a bit of a trade war. it's not a full blown trade war, but there is escalating trade tensions between beijing and the united states. president obama's stuck on massive duties on the imports of chinese tires. the chinese retaliated on american auto parts and chicken and nylon. now they are retaliating again. all of this happens in the back drop of a very aggressive buildup of the chinese military. >> i thought that that trade rival -- that trade dispute was settled. >> no. >> no. >> no, it is not. >> it is not? >> no. >> do you think, morlt, the u.s. is moving more towards china than china is moving towards the ?uz. >> obviously the movement is going both ways. china has a lot of problems. their per capita income is about a tenth of what it is in the united states. they have pollution problems that you just wouldn't believe. they have a one-child policy, which will produce tremendous
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tensions in their country because they are the only population where the young are much less than the old. and they are going to have to support the old. they have no social security program so they have plenty of problems to cope with. they need us, and we need them. that's gonna be the core of it. >> do you commend hillary clinton for going over there and laying the groundwork for the, what shall we call it, detante for making it clear to the chien ease that we want to be close to them? we almost want to be their fellow traveling around the globe? >> well, i think, you know, frankly several presidents preceding the current president have had the same ideas. there have always been issues that come up that cause tension and we find a way to get through them. everything we can do to improve that relationship is constructive for us. we need them in various ways. the mention here with iran is a critical one. the chinese are essentially interested in making money. they will make money off energy in iran and that's all they care about.
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>> do you see the civilization where we are in decline? >> i don't think we under decline, i have to tell you. i think they are in the ascendance si from where they have been but they started from such a low -- >> they have a problem, john. >> what is that problem? >> the problem is that they are auto cratic capitalists and the communist ideology is dead in the hearts and minds of people. the only argument the communist party has for monopoly of power now is we are succeeding and produce a better life. we've made china great. what happens when they run into their depression? and all of mort's problems come home? the communism regime faces a crisis. >> we need them. >> an autocratic pops down the economy for generations. >> let's let monica in. >> you want to make a point? >> i do. >> doing dong -- >> the chinese are in the beginning stages of a capitalist explosion. there are two other things. one of the reasons why hillary
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clinton made that trip to china was to convince the chinese to continue to buy our debt, which is financing this really wild spending going on in washington. and the second element of this is human rights. you would expect that a democratic administration, particularly one with a female secretary of state, who has made human rights a very important part of her portfolio over the years, would really emphasize human rights. instead, hillary clinton took a lot of flack from human rights organizes for not raising that. >> back to your question originally which is what does president obama want out of this? he's got two big issues facing him at home. one is the unemployment crisis really and second is the emerging debate on capitol hill on climate change. he needs china's buy-in on both those areas. the pace of their recovery has been much better than ours. it goes back to their currency, which pat introduced at the beginning. and he definitely needs china's cooperation on climate change. >> who needs the other more? >> i think right now we need
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china a little more than they need us. >> do you agree with that? >> no, i don't. i really think if the united states went economically nationalist, the chinese economy would crash and the political situation would be a disaster for them. >> so we hold the trump card some. >> we would be hurt -- think hold -- >> how can you measure the thing? they both need each other a great deal. pat's absolutely right. >> you are evading the question. who needs the other the most? >> we need them to the number of 51 and they need us to the number of 49. >> so we need them more than they need us? >> just a little bit. >> would you agree with that? >> i think that they do because, again, they are on the cusp of this capitalist explosion. they under the beginning of this evolution. >> they hold our debt and -- [ all talking at once ] >> they have an export-driven economy. >> do you think, including you, are living with a stair row tippic image of china, which is
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false and it's dated? that china today is a modern society? >> no, look, china -- >> have you seen the recent documentary on china? >> part of china is along the coast. part of it is 19th century. >> have you heard of the red and blue segments of the united states? and the -- >> our poor sections per capita income is three times what it is -- >> do you think them moving faster than we are moving or are we moving faster than they? >> 12% a year. >> 50, 40, 20 years from now, who's going to be dominant in the world? >> the question's whether china fall as part. >> there's the question. by the time president obama returns to the united states, will he have anything concrete to show in interprets of boosting u.s. job creation with 15 million americans now jobless? >> next to nothing. >> he promised that, though, before he went, did he not?
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>> next to nothing. >> laying the groundwork it's hard to come back with anything concrete. the thing is that china presents itself as this poor little developing country when, in fact, they are a dominant power. i think bridging the gap between the way they are promoting their self-image and the reality is another thing he's got ahold of. >> job creation for president obama is not to be found in beijing or china it's to be here at home and lowering the corporate tax rate, period. >> china is holding that. >> dealing with obama, who won't do it? >> we have a $1.7 trillion deficit in october alone. >> and they're holding 800 -- >> 174 billion. >> they're holding close to a trillion dollars in debt of the united states. >> what are they going to do with it? are they going to sell it and knock the pins out from under it? >> how many chicagos could they buy for a billion dollars? >> two and a half. >> not bad, pat. go ahead, mort.
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>> look there's no way that either of us are going to destroy the other or get into a combat with the other economic or real political combat. we both need each other too much. >> china's supplying gasoline to iran 40% is gasoline. >> it's coming across to other placesp. >> what do you mean? >> 40% of the gasoline iran uses is imported but not from china. >> i will say 40% comes from china. >> a lot of it is from china. >> china is clearly doing deals with iran and that gasoline over there is rationed. the selling of things like that to china -- to irare rawn, what does -- to iran, what that does mean china constitutes in our eyes when we have an ongoing, what, strange relationship in iran? >> china is investing in the
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big pipelines. they are making iran grow. >> because it is a huge comict opportunity. yes, they are stimulating iran's economy and so does india. india supplies a huge portion of their refined products. we'll have to get them with us. when we come back, is political correctness getting in the way of stopping the fort hood massacre? when planning for retirement these days, the forecast is full of ifs. if i'm too exposed to downturns. if i'll go through my savings too fast.
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issue two. fort hood fallout. >> this is a time of war. if these americans did not die on a foreign field in battle, they were killed here on american soil. this is the fact that makes the tragedy even more painful. >> they died in combat. the attack killed 13 people, 12 of them soldiers at fort hood, texas during a time of war. and it was an act of war directed at soldiers that the
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president called "the finest fighting force that the world has ever known." >> they have served tour after tour of duty and distant and difficult places. they have stood watch in blinding deserts and on snowy mountains. they are men and women, white, black, and brown ever all faiths and all stations. all americans serving together to protect our people. they are part of fighting force that the world has ever known. >> why is the president framing this as a terrorist attack and at the same time he's also framing it as part of combat in war? >> well, if you assume that this particular terrible deed was politically motivated, you can describe it as a terrorist act and therefore it's something that seems to me is a part of now after all of the
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information has emerged, it's something that he's got to make reference to. secondly, i think he's always going to be trying very hard to nourish his relationship with the military and to celebrate them in part because he may be having trouble with the military over places like afghanistan and doesn't want the military, in a sense, walking off the reservation, which some of them very well may do if you make the decision that they strongly disagree with in afghanistan where they may be held out sort of as the military mission that failed. >> eleanor? >> i think the tone he struck was just right. he didn't unnecessarily -- >> very eleanor. >> because the shooter is alive, we will get to hear what he has to say. and assuming his lawyer will probably try to claim insanity, but if he has any comprehension of right and wrong, i suspect he's not gonna get away with insanity and maybe he will stand up and declare he was advancing global jihaddism or something.
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he doesn't have to be acting at the instruction of anyone else. if that's his motive it is an active terrorism. >> in the same sense it was an act of terrorism in the same sense mcveigh's was. the question is hasan is a jihaddist and detests the war. if he's sent into the war he goes to eternal damnation and made the decision to murder all those folks. the open question,are these contacts that he's had, which have not been proven to be part of the motive abroad with some of these reel jihaddists that would make it an international act of terrorism. >> i don't know -- >> do you think there is say cultural divide between islam and democracy? >> yes, of course. in fact, the late harvard professor samuel huntington wrote about it many years ago. he saw this coming. >> what about that? is that a big issue and what should public policy do about it? >> of course because islam now
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is going through a major crisis within itself which is, how do you take this ideological and religious philosophy and move it into the modern world? that is a conflict that was going on in major hasan and also those targeting westerners all over the world. the bigger problem for the country is treating this kind of thing which is an act of war against the united states as a crime. this is not a garden variety homicide. this was an act of war against the united states. what we saw at the end of this week was the administration's decision to move khalid sheik mohammed and a lot of the terrorists being held at guantanamo bay in a civilian trial in new york city shows that they are moving us back to pre-9/11 where they are treating this -- [ all talking at once ] >> hold on. >> a criminal justice problem rather than acts of war. >> are you sure of that? i mean, what are they entitled by law since he's an american
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citizen for him? is that what they are thinking of? >> he's going into a military court. >> but -- [ all talking at once ] >> have they taken him out of the military court? >> no he will be tried there, but khalid shaikh mohammed is going into a civilian court, meaning he is going to be granted all of the constitutional rights and protections that you and i get, john. that's a recipe for a disaster. >> why should we be afraid of trying someone for a heinous crime? and if, as you may suggest, he were acquitted because we have all these constitutional protections, the i.n.s. would spoop in there and make pretty sure he was committed to a prison. >> oh, come on. >> the perpetrators of the '93 world trade bombing were prosecuted successfully in new york. >> give me a quick answer. you are stating that we have suffer our first terrorist attack in the united states sips 9/11, is that correct? >> yeah, but look -- >> is that correct? >> no, i'll say this. >> does it date back to the terrorist attack?
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>> in little rock, another muslim went in and shot two army recruiters and killed one. that was terror, also, by these definitions that you're using. >> what about it? >> and the antiabortion activist who killed abortion doctors to advance their philosophy could be labeled terrorists. >> you've got to give me a yes or no. >> if these murders were committed in the name of islam, it is. >> yes or no? >> i think it is. >> the answer appears to be yes. we'll be right back with predecisions. when planning for retirement these days, the forecast is full of ifs. if i'm too exposed to downturns. if i'll go through my savings too fast. to help you feel more confident consider putting a portion of your savings in a metlife variable annuity. when the market goes up, it gives your assets a potential to grow. while protecting you if the market goes down with a steady stream of income. let america's number one annuity provider help you stay on course with guarantees for the if in life.
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you wanted more... you wanted video, and photos... email and broadband... you wanted to run your business from anywhere... and instant messaging, to stay in touch with everyone. you wanted apps to find music, news, or the way home. ok. your wireless companies. grow your world. yes or no? hasan is convicted and gets the death penalty? >> yes. >> yes. >> yes. >> yes. bye-bye. hi.
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